FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS with the 2X teleconverter or stick with FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS?

[ST]

Have you used and compared the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS with the 2X teleconverter to the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS for birds and other wildlife? 

I'm considering the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS (I already have the 2x teleconverter) to replace the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS.

I've scoured the web but can't find many helpful direct comparisons. 

Application, Environment and Background Info

I walk 10-20 kilometres every morning on the southwest coast of British Columbia. It's winter, and in my area that means it's dark and dreary with lots or rain. There are all kinds of birds, from Bald Eagles to Swallows, Hummingbirds and plenty of shorebirds, with many passing through on their migratory paths.  I carry an A1 and FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS and an A7 IV with a FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS or FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II for closer opportunities and landscapes. 

I'm happy with the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS when the light is good, but I'm in the middle of six months of this rainy season, so I'm usually shooting at 600 mm, f/6.3, 1/500 sec for stationary subjects, and 1/2000-1/4000 for things on the move. My ISO is often above 6400. 

I don't use a tripod or monopod. I'm always on the move.

I frequently crop to 200%. 

I rarely do videos.

I don't shoot sports.

The FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS serves me well for large birds like Bald Eagles when the light is good. 

Although I'm almost always at the long end (600 mm) of the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS, I use the zoom when a large bird approaches or for distant landscapes.

I don't mind the weight of carrying two cameras with these lenses.

Things I hope to change or improve

• Greater agility with a lighter, shorter lens
  I struggle to move the lens fast enough to catch swallows and other small birds in flight. I do much better with the FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II, but I can't fill the frame with that lens.  I can sometimes keep up with those smaller, faster birds, even with the 2x teleconverter, but I still want more reach.
• Exploring with the 300 mm, fast prime lens
  I like the idea of expanding my photography as I look for subjects I can capture at 300mm at f/2.8 (people and pet portraits outside, musical acts on stage). Although I have tended to use zoom lenses (FE PZ 16-35 MM F4 G, FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS, FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II), I got the FE 50mm F1.2 GM and have enjoyed having to work with the fixed focal length and how that leads me in different directions. I wonder if I would find the same thing with the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS.
• Depth of Field and Bokeh
  I'm unsure if the shallow depth of field and bokeh will make a big difference for me. But I may find that these attributes present new opportunities like the FE 50mm F1.2 GM.

Here's what I think will happen.

I'll use the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS without the teleconverter on dreary days. I have used the FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II (sometimes with the 2X teleconverter) for those days.

I'll use the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS with the 2X teleconverter when there's better light. 

Expectations of the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS with 2X teleconverter 

• The focus accuracy and speed with the 2X teleconverter will match or better the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS 
• The image quality will be at least as good as the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS 
  • I'm happy with the image quality using the FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II and 2X teleconverter and can tolerate the slightly slower focus speed. I imagine the results will be similar with the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS but at least as good or better than the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS 
• It will be easier to track small birds in flight with the FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS with 2X teleconverter (1675 grams) vs FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (2115 grams). The difference is 340 grams (12 oz) and 5.1 cm in length. That should make a difference, right? 

Questions

Have you tried both? What are your experiences? Will you keep the FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS?

Are my expectations realistic?

Thanks for reading and thinking about this with me.

Edited March 2 by ST
added associated products

[tonygale]

I did this with the a9III and the 300/2.8 GM and 2x extender. I thought the 300mm and 2x worked great. That said the flexibility of the zoom on the 200-600mm is worth a lot to me. The bokeh isn't hugely different because the 300 with the is an f/5.6, not that different than the f/6.3 on the 200-600. The 300mm does have the advantage of being a G Master and crazy fast.

I only briefly had the 300mm as a loaner

 

 

[ST]

10 hours ago, tonygale said:

I did this with the a9III and the 300/2.8 GM and 2x extender. I thought the 300mm and 2x worked great. That said the flexibility of the zoom on the 200-600mm is worth a lot to me. The bokeh isn't hugely different because the 300 with the is an f/5.6, not that different than the f/6.3 on the 200-600. The 300mm does have the advantage of being a G Master and crazy fast.

What aspect was crazy fast?

10 hours ago, tonygale said:

I only briefly had the 300mm as a loaner

Thanks for your reply, Tony.

I'm considering the A9 III (mainly for the pre-capture and burst mode).
I took these with the A1 and FE 200–600 mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (240% and 194% crops).  I wonder if these would have been better/worse/about the same with the A9 III and FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS with 2X teleconverter.

ILCE 600 mm f/6.3 1/500 sec ISO 125 240% crop

ILCE 600 mm f/6.3 1/4000 sec ISO 2000 194% crop

 

What do you think?

 

Edited March 6 by ST

[tonygale]

@ST The autofocus is crazy fast on the new 300mm.

 

The a9III pre-capture is great for birds, at least for me. Without it I almost always missed the bird taking off shot, I just didn't respond fast enough.

An advantage the a1 has over the a9III is the resolution, if you anticipate heavy cropping its nice to have those extra pixels.

On the other hand, with pre-capture on the a9III I can come in closer than I could previously, since I can get that initial moment instead of needing a wider frame for safety.

It might be worth trying to rent it and see what you think?

 

Tony

[BIRDS AS ART]

Please explain what you mean by a 240% crop ...

 

artie

[ST]

On 3/14/2024 at 7:44 AM, BIRDS AS ART said:

Please explain what you mean by a 240% crop ...

 

artie

Hi Artie,
Here are a couple of screenshots from Capture One.

This shows how deep I had to crop to get that image.

And this is the export screen that shows that the crop is 243%

Does that help?

I mentioned this crop percentage in my earlier post, to explain why I am concerned about getting an A9 III (24 mp) since I'm used to the A1 (50 mp).

[pm-r]

The A9III is not going to replace the A1 by any stretch.  Just because its new does not mean that it is better than the A1.  I also purchased an A9III but will keep both of my A1 bodies.  For shooting birds in flight, I feel like the A1 is still the better choice, unless your specialize in shooting humming birds and need to capture their wings in flight.  The A9III was a camera pretty much made for the Associated Press, especially for its use at the Summer and Winter Olympics.  The A1 is still a fantastic camera that can punch in and still offer a file that is just a few mp shy of what the A9III is cranking out.  The answer, of course, is to own one of each!

[ST]

On 3/20/2024 at 1:58 PM, pm-r said:

The A9III is not going to replace the A1 by any stretch.  Just because its new does not mean that it is better than the A1.  I also purchased an A9III but will keep both of my A1 bodies.  For shooting birds in flight, I feel like the A1 is still the better choice, unless your specialize in shooting humming birds and need to capture their wings in flight.  The A9III was a camera pretty much made for the Associated Press, especially for its use at the Summer and Winter Olympics.  The A1 is still a fantastic camera that can punch in and still offer a file that is just a few mp shy of what the A9III is cranking out.  The answer, of course, is to own one of each!

Thanks for the dose of reality. I was intrigued by the novelty and tempted by the prospect of doing some new things. But it's not as though I have an immediate need to do things only the A9 III can do. Maybe I'll cool my jets and wait to see what the A1 II will do.

[kevinmcox]

19 hours ago, ST said:

Maybe I'll cool my jets and wait to see what the A1 II will do.

That's my plan. I got to use the A9III at the college football national championship game, but there was nothing about it that made me want to trade in my A1s at this point.